tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6968132365438511409.post8053730828304849646..comments2024-03-26T02:27:06.176-05:00Comments on Tales of Faerie: Princess cultureKristinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01097525403940409218noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6968132365438511409.post-83765590832846447122013-08-21T10:29:41.905-05:002013-08-21T10:29:41.905-05:00Oh yea, I agree. It's easier to create simple,...Oh yea, I agree. It's easier to create simple, one dimensional characters, men or women. What I meant by lazy was breaking out of how one traditionally sees women in order to do so. Though it's not harder one way or another, for some reason women continue to be limited with those simplistic roles. It's difficult to see beyond what you've always known to be 'true', to expand out of that cultural conditioning, that's what I mean by lazy, I think. I hope I'm making sense!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08397400242153470523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6968132365438511409.post-22112751453074713122013-08-19T15:44:07.352-05:002013-08-19T15:44:07.352-05:00This is really fascinating. You could also say it&...This is really fascinating. You could also say it's easier to portray men in simple black and white, although somehow it must be easier to portray female characters as less complex? Kristinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16600342068882301007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6968132365438511409.post-35948497132918217302013-08-15T13:54:43.915-05:002013-08-15T13:54:43.915-05:00I've been thinking about your comment, letting...I've been thinking about your comment, letting it all digest this time around. And I read this article interviewing Natalie Dormer, who played Anne Boleyn on the show "The Tudors". And this excerpt in particular brought it home for me:<br /><br />“Men still have trouble recognizing, that a woman can be complex, can have ambition, good looks, sexuality, erudition, and common sense. A woman can have all those facets, and yet men, in literature and in drama, seem to need to simplify women, to polarize us as either the whore or the angel. That sensibility is prevalent, even to this day. I have a lot of respect for Michael [Hirst, creator and writer of The Tudors], as a writer and a human being, but I think that he has that tendency. I don’t think he does it consciously. I think it’s something innate that just happens and he doesn’t realize it.”<br /><br />And I think that's the rub entirely. The fact is, I think most of how women characters are limited isn't intentional. It's this unconscious expectation of what women are capable of, of defining them in such a limited way, all of which is informed by culture. There's so many layers to this, but I think it's less about anti-women and more about pro-stereotypes. All unconscious, for the most part. Because it's hard work to break centuries of conditioning, and it's always much easier to simplify-- virgin and whore, princess and evil queen. It's also hard, hard work to create a complex character whether in literature, film, or otherwise. So I think some of the explanation is also laziness on the parts of the creators of fairy tales and beyond. <br /><br />The full article is here: http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/75175679.html<br /><br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08397400242153470523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6968132365438511409.post-57841361996827902142013-08-12T11:25:10.993-05:002013-08-12T11:25:10.993-05:00Raquel-not a problem, glad to have your thoughts o...Raquel-not a problem, glad to have your thoughts on the matter :)<br /><br />I always wonder, though-many critics talk about Disney/the Grimms making the females more passive, and that much is absolutely true. But sometimes we talk as though that was an intentional choice-Disney and the Grimms were deliberately trying to limit the power of female characters in their stories. Is this really the case, or were their choices subconscious reflections of the culture around them, in which women didn't have a lot of rights? As men they may have been more oblivious to the point of view of women than deliberately trying to suppress their rights. Or, they really may have had an anti-woman agenda. <br /><br />I think you are spot on with your "cruelty masking as empowerment." I think we feminists have to be very careful not to swing to the other extreme.Kristinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16600342068882301007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6968132365438511409.post-31179073331236503692013-08-07T13:26:17.413-05:002013-08-07T13:26:17.413-05:00Oh dear, I realize my musings are just echoing the...Oh dear, I realize my musings are just echoing the article as well as your thoughts(my eyes glazed over the Buzz Lightyear commments initially, why did I think the astronaut example come out of no where?). Sorry about that-- must digest first, respond later. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08397400242153470523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6968132365438511409.post-23404091140524844592013-08-07T13:19:01.526-05:002013-08-07T13:19:01.526-05:00I haven't read the book nor do I have real spe...I haven't read the book nor do I have real specific examples of princess culture (was not really into them as a child), but I've come across similar literature in my anthro studies, and I'll just say that what I think this anti-princess movement seems to be about is more or less the damnsel-in-distress. Not exactly a revelation, but looking deeper into the princess culture, how we're rallying against all forms of female submission, and how & why princesses are representative of that in a lot of ways. The manipulation of fairy tales by Disney and Grimm often heightened the powerlessness of the princess. Why was this? I guess it has to do with society's comfort level of the traditional female role (housekeeper, mother, nurse) and keeping it that way. In most stories, an adventure is necessary, the hero's journey, and it is often the male that journeys and the female whose movement within the story is under the authority of some male or another. <br /><br />I know I'm probably not making much sense, but this topic is important to me. I have a couple concerns regarding the anecdote the article offers with regards to career day in Kindergarten. Firstly, why is there a career day in kindergarten that takes itself so seriously that a child cannot even make-believe? And secondly, how did that adults reaction to the child's choice profession make HER feel? What did the child really learn that day, what did she really grasp about that situation? My guess is that it had little to do about careers and whether being a princess or not is a legitimate one, but more of an adult woman's meanness and really, unnecessary reaction to a child's imagination. It kind of breaks my heart to think of that child, waking up and dressing and feeling just beautiful as a princess, and then being forced to change. She must've felt so stupid. I was a sensitive child, that would have been quite traumatic for me.<br /><br />I can see where the concern over princess culture comes from, and my concern is related to the beauty pageant part of it-- the part in which children learn that a woman's value is in her beauty. But honestly, that specific exchange on Career Day did nothing to dispel that. Creativity, imagination, make-believe, all these things are natural to children until un-empathetic adults come along to snatch them away. No, dear 5-year-old, choose a *real* career. Because seeing you dressed as a princess violates some feminist mantra inside me.<br /><br />I wonder, if a young boy dressed as an astronaut would've been forced to change, as well. Technically, you cannot be an astronaut anymore. It's not a 'real' career.<br /><br />I'll also add that I am a feminist and love of all things related to women-empowerment. I don't like, however, cruelty masking as empowerment, which is what I think this was about more than anything else. <br /><br />Love your blog, by the way. Have been following for a bit. :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08397400242153470523noreply@blogger.com